Creation Time Offset Problem

Bugreports = Bugfixes

Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:55 am

Hello,

I'm having a problem with ShutterSnitch not applying the -8:00 offset (I'm in Los Angeles) to files from a Nikon D5. I see the three -8:00 offsets in the file info but when the file hits our FTP server they see the creation date as being 8 hours ahead. If I look at the Origin info in Photoshop for a file straight out of the camera, it shows this "2020-01-03 21:26:44.076 -08:00". If I process it through ShutterSnitch, It shows this 2020-01-03 21:26:44. Is there any solution for this? Also, what effect does putting a check mark on any of the file info items have?

Many thanks,

Mark
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:51 pm

A checkmark on a file info item makes it show up in the 'Overview' tab (selectable at the bottom of the screen). So if you're only interested in a few fields, you can check those in the 'Details' tab and then just turn to the 'Overview' to have them listed there.

I think I need some more info to understand if there's a bug here.

It's important to note: The file date/time on the FTP server will be the time your file was received in ShutterSnitch. It's simply the local file creation date and not related to the camera metadata. So if you take the photos at 4PM, transfer them to ShutterSnitch at 6PM and then export to FTP at 7PM, the file time on the FTP server files will be 6PM (if the FTP server supports the MFMT/UTIME/MFCT commands).

Is the issue you're seeing related to the file time or are the actual values of the JPEG metadata changed?
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:20 pm

Thanks so much for getting back to me.

The file is being received by ShutterSnitch and being sent to the FTP within two or three minutes normally. The creation time that my editors are seeing after it goes through our FTP seems to be off by hours randomly. Sometimes way ahead and sometimes way behind the camera time according to them although they may be misreading the date. It’s tough not to conclude that the -08:00 offset has something to do with this but I am not sure. Finished files that are processed through Photo Mechanic and Photoshop are getting through with the proper creation time which of course is not the same as the camera capture time. It is the time that the file was saved in Photoshop.

As an aside, and to complicate things further, the Modification Time within the IPTC in Photo Mechanic shows a time that is 8 hours ahead, regardless of whether it is straight from the camera, processed in Photoshop or has gone through ShutterSnitch. The creation times on all three types of files are correct in Photo Mechanic and may not be related to the ShutterSnitch problem that I am having. This seems to be the case with all types of cameras.

I sent three versions of the same image to our server and got really random results. One was straight from the camera, the other was processed through Photoshop and the third went through ShutterSnitch. In this case, the files were processed and sent to our server as a test 10 hours after they were shot. Here are the results.

Camera File

Ingested Time 01/06/2020 07:00:39 AM EST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:05 18:04:02 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created Time 01/06/2020 12:00:39 PM (unknown why 5 hours was added to the ingest time and applied here.)

Photoshop File

Ingested Time 01/06/2020 07:25:57 AM EST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 20200106 122150-800 PST (This is the time that the file was saved from Photoshop except that the file was actually saved at 4:21a PST)
Created Time 01/06/2020 12:21:50 PM (This is the time that the file was saved from Photoshop except that the file was actually saved at 4:21a PST)

ShutterSnitch File

Ingested Time 01/06/2020 07:00:57 AM EST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:05 18:04:02 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created Time 1/05/2020 03:52:02 AM (This is where we are having a problem. Somehow it is getting a time stamp that is about 9 hours before it was shot.)


This is the data from the same file in Photoshop. One is straight from the camera and the other has gone through ShutterSnitch. The only difference that I can find is that <photoshop:DateCreated> is missing the -08:00 offset in the ShutterSnitch file. Not sure if that is at all significant.

ShutterSnitch

<xmp:CreateDate>2020-01-05T18:04:02</xmp:CreateDate>
<xmp:ModifyDate>2020-01-05T18:04:02.28-08:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
<xmp:MetadataDate>2020-01-05T18:04:02.28-08:00</xmp:MetadataDate> <photoshop:DateCreated>2020-01-05T18:04:02</photoshop:DateCreated>
<exif:DateTimeOriginal>2020-01-05T18:04:02</exif:DateTimeOriginal>

D5
<xmp:CreateDate>2020-01-05T18:04:02</xmp:CreateDate>
<xmp:ModifyDate>2020-01-05T18:04:02.28-08:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
<xmp:MetadataDate>2020-01-05T18:04:02.28-08:00</xmp:MetadataDate>
<photoshop:DateCreated>2020-01-05T18:04:02.028-08:00</photoshop:DateCreated>
<exif:DateTimeOriginal>2020-01-05T18:04:02</exif:DateTimeOriginal>

Thanks again.
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:43 pm

Alright, so we're talking about the metadata.

I assume you're having ShutterSnitch do something to the file before uploading it then? An action to update something?

Could you attach a sample JPG taken straight from your card that I can test with?
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:02 pm

Yes. A caption is being applied during ShutterSnitch ingest from a Nikon WT-5.

Here are two files. The one with the caption has gone through ShutterSnitch and shared directly to my computer. The other is straight from the camera card.
Attachments
_MT28371.JPG
Camera File
_MT28371.JPG (9.63 MiB) Viewed 265 times
_MT28371.JPG
This is the ShutterSnitch file.
_MT28371.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 265 times
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:08 pm

OK, so that's probably where the issue occurs. (Test without that action if you're bored. ;)

Looking into it!
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:06 pm

Hmm.. Does the metadata in this attached photo check out better on your side?
Attachments
_MT28371.JPG
_MT28371.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 263 times
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:40 pm

Unfortunately, no.

Here is what the server saw on that file.

File Name _MT28371.JPG
Ingested 01/06/2020 05:02:42 PM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:06 05:53:24 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created Time 01/05/2020 10:03:24 PM (This is 7 Hours, 56 minutes off from the capture time)

I conducted several tests as you will see below. Note that the "Created Time" is the one that we are trying to get right. The first is straight from the card to the server. The second was processed in Photo Mechanic and Photoshop. The third went through ShutterSnitch without any caption applied. The fourth had a caption applied and the fifth got a caption and the file was resized in ShutterSnitch. As you can see, the caption does seem to be causing this problem but I am not sure why or how. You will also notice that an 8 hour offset was applied to the file that was straight from the card along with the one that went straight through ShutterSnitch. I am seeing that 8 hour offset in the modification time in the IPTC window of Photo Mechanic. Both Nikon and Canon cameras are showing this odd 8 hour offset in the modification time. Not sure why. I also noticed that the time format is different in some fields depending on how the file was sent. Not sure if that is significant or not.


Straight from Card
File Name_MT28374.JPG

Ingested 01/07/2020 03:38:31 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)

Camera Time 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (UTC)(This is the correct camera capture time.)

Created Time 01/07/2020 11:38:31 AM (This appears to relate to a modification time with an 8 hour offset tacked on)

IPTC CameraTime 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (This is the correct camera capture time.)


Processed in Photo Mechanic and Photoshop
File Name _MT28374 PM PS.jpg

Ingested 01/07/2020 03:44:20 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)

Camera Time 20200107 033549 *(no timezone)* (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)

Created Time 01/07/2020 03:35:49 AM (This is the correct camera capture time.)

IPTC CameraTime 20200107 033549 *(no timezone)* (This is the correct camera capture time.)


ShutterSnitch Untouched
File Name _MT28374.JPG

Ingested 01/07/2020 03:50:48 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)

Camera Time 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)

Created Time 01/07/2020 11:50:48 AM (This appears to relate to a modification time with an 8 hour offset tacked on)

IPTC CameraTime 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (This is the correct camera capture time.)



ShutterSnitch Caption Applied
File Name _MT28374.JPG

Ingested 01/07/2020 03:53:49 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)

Camera Time 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)

Created Time 01/06/2020 05:09:49 PM (This is 10 Hours, 44 minutes off from the capture time. Every file that I have tried is randomly multiple hours off. I had another one that was 13 hours and 56 minutes off and yet another that was 7 hours and 56 minutes off)

IPTC CameraTime 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (This is the correct camera capture time.)


ShutterSnitch Caption Applied and Resized
File Name _MT28374.JPG

Ingested 01/07/2020 03:57:20 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)

Camera Time 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)

Created Time 01/06/2020 05:09:49 PM (Again wildly off)

IPTC CamerTime 2020:01:07 03:35:49 (This is the correct camera capture time.)
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:09 pm

Interesting.

The thing is, the D5 adds the CreateDate value in the XMP data as a node, not a property. Which is ..silly. But OK. So I hoped just moving that value back into the proper place would solve it, but I guess not.

You say the untouched file from ShutterSnitch is also off ..that confuses me quite a bit - that file should be the exact same bytes as the 'straight from the card' one. Are you sure you're not applying any actions to it? Or resizing or watermarking it or something? (Check the Pre-processing page for the FTP Location.)

What software are you using to read this data (don't forget to answer this one)? There is *no* date times in the file I attached that ends in a minute '03'. So given all the other wacko times I wonder if the reader is confused and maybe falls back on something related to the file creation date?

Can you attach a version of the _MT28371.JPG file that has been processed from the original file in Photo Mechanic and Photoshop (and checks out) so I can compare it with mine?
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:43 pm

Just so that you understand. The last data that I gave you is coming from the Associated Press' proprietary photo editing software that is on our server not an exif data reader.

I am certainly no server expert but what I suspect is going on here is that there are two problems. I suspect that our server software is set up to take the "Created Time" value from the wrong place (perhaps a modification value in the absence of a created time that comes from Photoshop) and that ShutterSnitch is also creating a problem with that value when a caption is applied. I am basing that hypothesis on the fact that the file that is straight from the card is having a modification date applied to it and the untouched ShutterSnitch file is getting the same treatment. When there is a caption applied in ShutterSnitch, it gets this wild time that is many hours before the picture was shot and that is the only time that happens.

I think you misunderstood what I said about the untouched ShutterSnitch file being off. Just to reiterate, it is off in the same way that an untouched file straight from the card is off. It is getting a modification time applied to the "Created Time" for some reason (likely our own server problem). I don't think that is a ShutterSnitch problem. I do thing that the "Created Time" in the files that have had a caption applied IS being caused by ShutterSnitch.
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