Creation Time Offset Problem

Bugreports = Bugfixes

Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:52 pm

Here is _MT28371.JPG that has been processed through PM and PS. If you have Photo Mechanic, have a look at the modification date in the IPTC field of the file that is straight from the card. You will see what I am talking about. It is exactly 8 hours off from the actual capture time. This is an issue with Nikons and Canons and yet I can't figure out why. Of course, this is not a ShutterSnitch issue. It's just odd and may be a contributing factor.
Attachments
_MT28371.JPG
_MT28371.JPG Processed with PS and PM
_MT28371.JPG (1.77 MiB) Viewed 166 times
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:44 pm

I don't have Photo Mechanic and Mac OS X Catalina killed my dang expensive Photoshop. :/

How does your web-upload system feel about the attached photo?
Attachments
_MT28371_pretty_please.JPG
_MT28371_pretty_please.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 163 times
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:39 pm

(Ignore me)Actually, no, that time would be wrong. (I've been working under the assumption all along that the time it was taken was before the 8 hour time difference from UTC was applied - I mean 5.53AM who's alive at that hour? ..but I just discovered that *is* the local time it was snapped.. Wow, kudos to you. :)

Don't waste your time on this currently. I'm still trying to juggle all this. It's.. complicated.
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:33 pm

Well, geez. It's assumption day for me. I'll spare you the details. Long story short: My previous question stands - how does your web upload system feel about the file I attached above?

I'm hoping it gets confused because it expects a very specific formatting of the dates, and the file above uses the format your PS+PM has. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:15 am

You will be happy to know that it did get confused. It reported back the exact same "Created Time" that I got when I put the file through ShutterSnitch. What does this indicate?

File Name
_MT28371_pretty_please.JPG
Ingested 01/09/2020 12:15:13 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:06 05:53:24 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created Time 01/05/2020 10:03:24 PM (This is 7 Hours, 56 minutes off from the capture time)


File Name _MT28371.JPG ShutterSnitch
Ingested 01/06/2020 05:02:42 PM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:06 05:53:24 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created Time 01/05/2020 10:03:24 PM (This is 7 Hours, 56 minutes off from the capture time)

Would you mind trying this with one more file? I just want to be sure before I go to our technicians with the other part of this problem which I suspect is that they have the server pulling the capture time from the wrong area. It doesn't seem to know the right "Created Time" unless it sees a Photoshop file. _MT28374 is the file that I did the multiple tests with that you see above.

Many thanks again for all the help.
Attachments
_MT28374 PM PS.jpg
Processed with Photo Mechanic and Photoshop
_MT28374 PM PS.jpg (1.74 MiB) Viewed 159 times
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:40 am

I would *love* to know what could be misunderstood in the metadata of the _MT28371_pretty_please.JPG file :) so maybe you should throw that one at them and ask why it's misread.

Here are the raw dates in the files:

MT28374%20PM%20PS.jpg:
Code: Select all
xmp:CreateDate="2020-01-07T03:35:49"
xmp:ModifyDate="2020-01-07T03:43:28-08:00"
xmp:MetadataDate="2020-01-07T03:43:28-08:00"
photoshop:DateCreated="2020-01-07T03:35:49"


_MT28371_pretty_please.JPG:
Code: Select all
xmp:CreateDate="2020-01-06T05:53:24-08:00"
photoshop:DateCreated="2020-01-06T05:53:24-08:00"
xmp:ModifyDate="2020-01-06T05:53:24-08:00"


I don't add a xmp:MetadataDate value to my files because it's not necessary (and it's not the date we're looking for).

As you can see, my info is actually more accurate since it specifically includes the time zone using the ISO 8601 format.

You ask if I can "try one more" - I assume you mean make a file that looks like the formatting of the MT28374%20PM%20PS.jpg attachment? I'll try making this Frankenstein one - which I hope doesn't work, because I'm not keen on having my data be such a mess.. :) But hey, it would be fun to see if it works.

Sidenote: Did you seriously take that photo at 3:35 AM?
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:01 pm

Alright. Three test files. Looking forward to hearing your findings. :)
Attachments
_MT28371_unicorn.JPG
Fields sorted the same way as _MT28374
_MT28371_unicorn.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 159 times
_MT28371_mixed_format_date_times_and_metadataDate_field.JPG
Same fields and formatting as _MT28374
_MT28371_mixed_format_date_times_and_metadataDate_field.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 159 times
_MT28371_mixed_format_data_times.JPG
Same formatting as _MT28374 without the metadataDate field
_MT28371_mixed_format_data_times.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 159 times
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby mjterrill » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:35 pm

Yes. Those late night capture times are correct. I work nights shooting sports and have been up later than normal trying to solve this problem. There is a chance that if we can get this worked out that the AP may buy several licenses. Do you offer any sort of group or company rate?

You had said that you were hoping that _MT28371_pretty_please.JPG caused our server to get confused. It did. I'm just wondering what you did to it and what that told you about the problem. Do you think that I am correct in thinking that our server is looking for the Photoshop date value and when it doesn't see it, it is defaulting to something else like a modification date? The modification date doesn't explain the 7 Hours, 56 minutes earlier from the capture time problem. Any idea where this is coming from?

Here is what our server reported back on those three files. The are all off.

File Name
_MT28371_mixed_format_data_times.JPG

Ingested 01/09/2020 03:20:28 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:06 05:53:24 (UTC) (This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created 01/05/2020 10:03:24 PM (This is 7 Hours, 56 minutes off from the capture time)

File Name
_MT28371_mixed_format_date_times_and_metadataDate_field.JPG

Ingested 01/09/2020 03:20:45 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:06 05:53:24 (UTC)(This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created 01/05/2020 10:03:24 PM (This is 7 Hours, 56 minutes off from the capture time)

File Name
_MT28371_unicorn.JPG

Ingested 01/09/2020 03:20:59 AM PST (This is correct for the time that our server received the file in New York.)
Camera Time 2020:01:06 05:53:24 (UTC)(This is the correct camera capture time.)
Created 01/05/2020 10:03:24 PM (This is 7 Hours, 56 minutes off from the capture time)
mjterrill
 
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:55 pm

mjterrill wrote:Yes. Those late night capture times are correct. I work nights shooting sports and have been up later than normal trying to solve this problem. There is a chance that if we can get this worked out that the AP may buy several licenses. Do you offer any sort of group or company rate?

The money business is all in Apple's hands. I offer two options: monthly and yearly subscription. I'm not sure Apple offers any batch rebates but I think those would probably be in the case of hundreds or thousands of licenses, so.. :)

mjterrill wrote:You had said that you were hoping that _MT28371_pretty_please.JPG caused our server to get confused. It did. I'm just wondering what you did to it and what that told you about the problem. Do you think that I am correct in thinking that our server is looking for the Photoshop date value and when it doesn't see it, it is defaulting to something else like a modification date? The modification date doesn't explain the 7 Hours, 56 minutes earlier from the capture time problem. Any idea where this is coming from?

I can see how my sentence could be read like I hoped it would be confused, but what I meant was that the file hopefully should be good and I was explaining why I thought your service got confused (needing a very specific formatting of missing time zones in some fields and time zones in others).

As you can see above, the Photoshop create date has always been available in my metadata. And in my files, the modify date is the exact same date as the create date.
Those create-dates you see are nowhere to be found in the actual xmp data, so I don't know how your system conjures those up.

mjterrill wrote:Here is what our server reported back on those three files. The are all off.

The _MT28371_mixed_format_date_times_and_metadataDate_field.JPG file has *all* the same fields that your _MT28374 file has and formatted the same way.
So if your system actually gets the create date from the file, it must be stored outside of the XMP data - and in a binary format. I'll see if I can find something.
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Re: Creation Time Offset Problem

Postby TheBrew » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:51 pm

I think I got it!

I've never quite understood this, but I see it again and again - some software will just prefer one type of metadata container and ignore everything else. I bet your web service just reads the IPTC metadata and ignores everything else. Which is a shame because XMP is superior in all regards. :)

And yes, this is a bug in ShutterSnitch. I missed updating the created date/time in the IPTC metadata when it's set in the XMP metadata. This will be fixed in the next version.

Can you confirm that it works with the attached file?
Attachments
_MT28371_iptc.JPG
_MT28371_iptc.JPG (9.58 MiB) Viewed 156 times
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